"Clarification Needed on what's Illicit, and the Official Celtic Statement"

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Joe O'Rourke
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"Clarification Needed on what's Illicit, and the Official Celtic Statement"

Postby Joe O'Rourke » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:04 pm

[COLOR=#000000:c02db25b]Since the so-called “Shame Game” in March of this year there has been great confusion over what can and can’t be sung by the Celtic support at Celtic Park. It started off by the police claiming songs like “The Boys of the Old Brigade” are sectarian; and therefore offensive; strangely the Fiscal’s Office does not support that claim.[COLOR=#000000:c02db25b]They then came up with a new accusation; and that is that those types of songs are “ILLICIT” and therefore offensive and against the rules of UEFA; I believe under the term “POLITICAL” is it not about time that there was some clarity on the issue?[COLOR=#000000:c02db25b]If UEFA are going to punish the fans of teams for singing political songs they will have to close most of the stadiums in Europe; try telling fans of teams like Barcelona and Athletico Bilbao that they are singing illicit songs.[COLOR=#000000:c02db25b]And what about every National team in Europe; will “Flower of Scotland” and “Land of my Fathers” be banned? Not forgetting of course; “The Soldiers Song” or even “Rule Britannia” for that matter.[COLOR=#000000:c02db25b]As far as I’m aware there was a very small number of Celtic fans involved; about .02% of the crowd that night; and we can only assume that since the incident was reported by the Match Commander Eddie Smith; the illicit chant would have been “ooh ah up the RA”.[COLOR=#000000:c02db25b]Now we could argue on here all day about what is and isn’t illicit; and whether we should or should not sing political songs; but there seems to have been a change in direction over the last three or four weeks in regards to the song content; and for that the support have received praise from at least one senior police officer; and no; it wasn’t Eddie Smith.[COLOR=#000000:c02db25b]So how do we approach the future? Well we need to have clarification on what is illicit; I have said on here before we are prepared to have that debate with the club; and it may well happen sooner rather than later; what we don’t need is interference from outsiders with different agendas.[COLOR=#000000:c02db25b]As it transpires Celtic have decided not to appeal the fine imposed by UEFA; I’m not sure I would agree with that decision; but I believe UEFAs rules are a bit like Alex Salmond’s; one rule catches all. Below is the official statement from Celtic.[COLOR=#000000:c02db25b]CELTIC have announced that they will not appeal against the fine of 15,000 euros imposed by UEFA for ‘illicit’ chanting at the recent UEFA Europa League tie against Rennes at Celtic Park.[COLOR=#000000:c02db25b]Celtic Chief Executive Peter Lawwell said: “The heavy fine imposed by UEFA is an indication of the seriousness with which it treats such matters. We would re-iterate our own position that however small a minority is involved, such chanting is not welcome at Celtic Football Club.[COLOR=#000000:c02db25b]“Clearly, it is very disappointing and a source of real regret amongst our supporters that Celtic´s proud history of exemplary conduct has been tarnished in this way by such a tiny minority. [COLOR=#000000:c02db25b]“However, this is a clear warning that such behaviour will not be tolerated and together, Celtic Football Club and our supporters will do all we can to ensure that this incident is not repeated. [COLOR=#000000:c02db25b]“We would like to thank our supporters for their magnificent conduct since the match against Rennes. We are proud of the fantastic and positive reputation we have established across Europe over many years, and the Club and our fans will be doing all we can to ensure that this is protected.”

Stanshoops
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Re: "Clarification Needed on what's Illicit, and the Official Celtic Statement"

Postby Stanshoops » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:25 pm

Joe
It is noted that Mr. Lawell has once again [U:c005725a]not[/U:c005725a] taken the opportunity to clarify just what "such matters" are. He has failed to claify just what he is "reiterating"? and what exactly are these "chants" that he and celtic don't welcome!
Could I propose a reply from the CSA -

"[I:c005725a]Yes - Mr. Lawell our history of exemplary conduct has been tarnished - and you could have prevented that by making your position crystal clear long long ago, but you chose for some reason deliberately not to do that - we can all speculate why that is! For your information i[COLOR=#000000:c005725a]t is very disappointing and a source of real regret amongst the CSA and our wider our supporters that Celtic´s proud history of exemplary conduct has been tarnished in this way by such a tiny minority on the board. [COLOR=#000000:c005725a]We would like you to explain just exactly what you mean when you say that you want to re-iterate your position. Could you tell us just exactly what are the words of the chanting that you do not welcome at Celtic Football Club, what song words don't you want and why, and finally what exactly do you mean by "illicit" ?
[/COLOR:c005725a][/COLOR:c005725a][/I:c005725a]Hail Hail
Stanshoops

eddieinkirkmichael
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Re: "Clarification Needed on what's Illicit, and the Official Celtic Statement"

Postby eddieinkirkmichael » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:08 pm

Once again Celtic fans have been sold down the river by the board of directors. We as fans need to challenge this UEFA decision ourselves. We are the ones who are being judged as being as bad as scotlands shame. Almost everyone who has any legal knowledge I have spoken to has come out and said this decision would be laughed out of court. Illicit is not the same as offensive, or sectarian, or unacceptable. Illicit means ” Not legally permitted or authorised, unlicensed, disaproved of for moral or ethical reasons”.
Something cannot be almost illegal or unlawful– it has to be determined specifically unlawful or illegal. Similarly, something cannot almost be illicit— it either is, or is not.
Surely as a group of fans we can challenge this decision? If Lawell and the board wont stand up for us then we must stand up for ourselves.

Guest

Re: "Clarification Needed on what's Illicit, and the Official Celtic Statement"

Postby Guest » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:31 pm

It's REALLY clear what "illicit" means with regards to chants from Celtic fans. Only the deliberately obtuse and the keyboard martyrs pretend to be unable to understand what is required -- despite the club repeatedly requesting that these chants stop.

For those who are still pretending to be unable to comprehend which Celtic chants are illicit/offensive or any other term you wish to use, it's really simple....ANYTHING referring to the IRA should not be sung/chanted or shouted. Now that it's been clarified....cut it out.

Forget the "whitabootery". Concentrate on cleaning up our own house and let the various authorities worry about other offending clubs, and whether national anthems can be deemed offensive. Forget about being a jailhouse lawyer or a hero in your own mind for civil rights. Stop chanting add-ons and singing songs glorifying the IRA and the problem will be solved. It's REALLY that simple!

tyrebhoy
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Re: "Clarification Needed on what's Illicit, and the Official Celtic Statement"

Postby tyrebhoy » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:03 pm

Joe
Since that SHAME GAME, we have been put under terrible pressure from all in media and Parliment SNP style, we saw what happened at swinecastle, this cort case was laughing stock all over the world, when the jury found him not guilty, Then Kenny McKaskill came out in media praising the fans for a wonderfull display of true fans yes that game old League Cup Final, since then the strathclyde Polis have failed to report others from singing songs of hate I include teams outside old firm (hate that phrase) at there grounds,
Its now about time we have a boycott on all away games lets get some parity hit them where it hurts,
our board should be told enough is enough, one last thing if it was illicit we think we know the chants,
why was a gentleman from NI on this panel maybe am wrong but is he not Vice President

gert/canada
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Re: "Clarification Needed on what's Illicit, and the Official Celtic Statement"

Postby gert/canada » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:18 pm

Joe , I truely hope Mr Lawell will have second thoughts . The support need the board to stand with them on this. I,m sure they know what Strathclydes finest are up to. The lets even the score stuff has started and the unlawfull legislation has'nt even been implemented yet. Sorry times ahead me thinks for the Celtic support.

Guest

Re: "Clarification Needed on what's Illicit, and the Official Celtic Statement"

Postby Guest » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:20 pm

We need to stop singing "oh ah" full stop

Guest

Re: "Clarification Needed on what's Illicit, and the Official Celtic Statement"

Postby Guest » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:46 pm

How do we go about challenging it? is it something that FAC can arrange ?

scotsmarc
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Re: "Clarification Needed on what's Illicit, and the Official Celtic Statement"

Postby scotsmarc » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:53 am

So here we are. We all knew it would come at some point or another and let’s face it, not a single Celtic supporter is in the slightest surprised with the criminalization of Celtic fans. I have many times backed the powers that be at Celtic against my friends and have very often been a minority in that standpoint. Business is business and PL and DD are businessmen. And though we may not like how they do things and we are constantly disappointed that we don’t see the big names arriving, at least we all know we will still have a team and we will still be going to paradise next season.
That however, does not detract from where are at the moment. What PL, DD and the rest of the spineless board have done is simple. They have allowed the world famous name of Glasgow Celtic tarnished. Our club history makes it clear everyone is welcome. We all know why and how our club was founded.
PL and the board have thrown away a massive opportunity here. So massive I am astonished. A clear leader would have got all the relevant groups in a room, sat down and discussed this matter with the parties involved. After getting agreement and informal guidelines that could be worked on with the groups a formal appeal to UEFA would then be launched. We could have our day in court. Because let’s face it the UEFA court is a kangaroo court. How can you be tried AND convicted without offering a defence? How can any group or person allow their rights to justice be walked over in this way.


God save the queen talks about killing its own subjects or in the words of the song “Rebellious Scots to crush” and the flower of Scotland is also at the very least a political song. The soldier’s song is also political. Spanish clubs songs are very political. Yet it seems little Eddie has a private line to the UEFA Ethics committee! He could not cut it as a ref, so he has no say in the dealings between Celtic FC and UEFA.
Make no mistake what we have witnessed this week is a little man get his day of glory. We pay this "senior" policeman’s wages every week he sits at Celtic park and governs over us. We are paying for the policing we should have a say in who polices us and this must be looked at immediately. (WOULD YOU INVITE SOMEONE INTO YOUR HOUSE IF THEY WERE GOING TO S*IT ON THE CARPET)

Shame on Strathclyde police and shame on the Celtic board - Your deeds this week would shame all the devils in hell.

gert/canada
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Re: "Clarification Needed on what's Illicit, and the Official Celtic Statement"

Postby gert/canada » Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:18 pm

This post has had over 1600 views with only 5 replies. C'mon bhoys and ghirls time to come together here and make a stand.PL and DD have got to know the fans don't agree. Or do we ?


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