Poppy Scotland " Was Freedom of Choice not part of the Fight for Democracy?"

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Joe O'Rourke
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Poppy Scotland " Was Freedom of Choice not part of the Fight for Democracy?"

Postby Joe O'Rourke » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:02 pm

I always believed that the poppy symbolised the fight for freedom, and part of that freedom was freedom of choice; it would appear that that freedom is no longer part of democracy in Scotland since our club and our supporters are being coerced and pressurised into wearing a poppy on our jersey and standing for a minutes silence to commemorate Remembrance Sunday, which used to be about the fallen of World War’s 1 and 2, but no so any more, it is now being used for propaganda and cultural domination of those who don’t agree. There have been many conflicts which have taken place all over the world which weren’t supported by all sections of Scottish society, not least of all in Ireland, and more recently in Iraq and Afghanistan which many people abhor. let me state from the outset that I have no problem respecting those who fought for freedom and liberty in the two Great Wars, but forcing people to wear poppies is contrary to what they fought for; did the Nazi’s not force the Jews to wear a Star of David; did they not tattoo the prisoners in concentration camps to identify their race or creed, that was fascism at it’s worst and deserved to be opposed.
Through coercing Celtic to comply with this request we are putting Celtic players and supporters in a position they should not be in, has anyone outside of Celtic FC considered the feelings of Andreas Hinkel or Koki Mizuno, or closer to home, what about Aiden Mc Geady, Paddy Mc Court and Nail Mc Ginn?, these players are being pressurised into doing something they might not wish to do, why don’t we do what we have done for ninety years and that would be to leave your politics at home and pay your respects whichever way you think is appropriate in PRIVATE. Celtic are a team owned primarily by Irishmen, it was conceived in Ireland, and born and reared in Scotland, we have proud Irish roots, we are also proud to be all inclusive, we have a mission statement which identifies what we stand for and what we believe in, but our ethos is Irish and the poppy in Ireland is looked upon as divisive for obvious reasons, you wont see many in the Celtic strongholds of the Falls Road, Ardoyne, or the Bogside.
But we all know how this started, it was instigated last year to deflect attention away from the singing of the vile Famine Song by the so called
Supporters of Rangers, it had came just as they were being scrutinised by UEFA for their unacceptable behaviour, a behaviour that has not improved, they have now added Romania to their shame. The club itself grasps at every opportunity to show that they are the establishment club, they will do anything to get good publicity, does anyone think giving 1200 tickets to the army was anything less than a cheap publicity stunt, what ever debts they are in; they are not as financially bankrupt as they are morally bankrupt; Martin Bain’s immediate support of the hooligans in Romania proves that.
Over the last twenty years or so the Celtic fans have been put to the test many times in terms of respecting a minutes silence, we were asked to observe them for Davie Cooper, Jim Baxter, the Queen Mother and Princess Diana to name but a few; some of them more than once, each time we passed the test, but when one of the greatest leaders in the history of the world, Pope John Paul 11 died in April 2005; it took an intervention by the First Minister for Scotland Jack Mc Connell before the SFA and Premier League acted, in fact the PL left it up to the individual clubs, it is worth remembering that the funeral of John Paul 11 was the largest gathering of heads of states in history, there were 4 Kings, 5 Queens, and at least 70 Presidents and Prime Ministers in attendance, there were at least 14 leaders of other religions, it was the largest single Pilgrimage of Christians in history with over 4 million mourners in Rome, but not the same mourning in Scotland, when we played Hearts at Hampden in the semi-final of the cup the minutes silence was loudly booed by a fair majority of the Hearts fans; David Leggat of the Sunday People defended it at the time by saying “why should we have a minutes silence for the Pope ?, this is a Protestant country”, so much for one nation many cultures. But worse still in my opinion was the behaviour of John Boyle the chairman of Motherwell, he personally cancelled the minutes silence before their match against Rangers after having discussed it with David Murray; I wonder if any money changed hands there; after all Sir Moonbeams told us at the time that he could buy anybody on the planet; did that include chairmen?.
And what about the Minister for Morality Gordon Waddell of the Sunday Mail; I don’t remember him jumping up and down in protest; all he seems to do is criticise Celtic at every opportunity; his weekly column is an attack on Celtic, their players and their fans who he refers to as IRA sympathisers; he is one of the most anti-Celtic reporters I have ever read(on the internet might i add). I will be officially demanding that Peter Lawwell bars this bigot from Celtic Park; although he doesn’t visit there very often; he hates to see us enjoying ourselves.
So what you might ask is the solution to the problem for the match against Falkirk?, we know that Celtic will be pressurised into wearing a poppy on their jersey’s by the SPL, and that a minutes silence will be held before the kick-off, well they might be able to impose their will on Celtic FC but they cant impose it on the supporters of Celtic FC, as I said at the start of this article freedom of choice should be a FUNDEMENTAL RIGHT in any DEMOCRACY; in the Premiership in England Manchester United and Liverpool have declined to wear a poppy on their jersey’s, as is their right, so we, the Celtic Supporters Association would encourage all Celtic fans who go to Falkirk to exercise their right; if you wish to take part in the minutes silence then by all means do so with the greatest respect; if on the other hand you don’t wish to take part in the minutes silence for whatever reason, then we would ask that you remain outside the stadium in silent protest until after the match has started, then make your way into the stadium as quickly and safely as possible to support the team in the normal fashion. One thing I can promise Falkirk FC, Gordon Waddell and the rest, “WE WILL REMEMBER”. Make no mistake about that.

John Lynch
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Re: Poppy Scotland " Was Freedom of Choice not part of the Fight for Democracy?"

Postby John Lynch » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:14 pm

Well said Joe, I agree with everything you have just said. And you are bang on with Gordon Waddell, his comments are a disgrace, he clearly hates Celtic and the fans.
With regards the minutes silence The media headed by Gosdon waddell are desperate for us to screw it up. That will give them the negative Celtic story that they are desperate for so they can deflect some of the heat away from their beloved rangers. So my opinion is if you dont want to do the minutes silence stay outside the ground or go to the toilet or the pie stall. For this minute try and be silent as NOTHING WILL ANNOY THEM MORE !!

tim4life1997
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Re: Poppy Scotland " Was Freedom of Choice not part of the Fight for Democracy?"

Postby tim4life1997 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:49 am

Fantastic post joe, that really opened my mind. we shoudn't be pressurised into wearing poppy's and we shoudn't be pressurised into a minutes silence. 2 of my great-grandads were in world war 1. 1 of them won a medal he would have got a victoria's cross (highest honor in british army) but he was a catholic so no chance.

cuhulain
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Re: Poppy Scotland " Was Freedom of Choice not part of the Fight for Democracy?"

Postby cuhulain » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:58 pm

Once again sport is being dragged into the political arena, look if people want to wear poppies let them if the celtic board decide to put poppies on the shirts let them i does'nt bother me one iota, I am an Irish republican and as much as i don't like the crown force on my streets i deal with the fact that many that have done so were supporters of CELTIC!, YES i jest you not i was scooped many years ago by a tim albeit a kosbie but a tim well any way i could go on and on but i won't, the simple fact is the poppy covers a multitude of wars and nations, I don't wear one but i won't deny the celtic suppoter next to me the right to wear one that is his/her choice.
don`t fall into the trap of being like the hun DEAL WITH THIS in a dignified manner and live and let them choose
hail hail
Gerry
:clover:

Joe O'Rourke
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Re: Poppy Scotland " Was Freedom of Choice not part of the Fight for Democracy?"

Postby Joe O'Rourke » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:31 pm

Is that not the whole point of the article ??? !!!!!!!!!! " FREEDOM OF CHOICE "!!!!!!!!

irish eyes
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Re: Poppy Scotland " Was Freedom of Choice not part of the Fight for Democracy?"

Postby irish eyes » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:41 pm

Years ago I used to buy and wear a poppy to respect those who died in world wars 1 and 2. I no longer wear or buy a poppy because I disagree with what's gone on in (recent) years since world war 2. That is my choice and I respect everyone has a right to make their own choice on this matter, although if players are forced into wearing the poppy then they do not have a choice and that imho is wrong. As for the fans if I don't want to participate in any silence or handclap then I would decide to either remain outside or in an inside part of the ground away from the seating area and take my seat when the game starts. This topic shouldn't even be having to be discussed, it should be a matter for each individual fan, and player alike, to do or not do whatever they decide. I remember last season some fans walked out in protest, to be honest I disagree with that because we should be there to support the team first and foremost and should not walk out. Last season I stayed at the foodcourt area and took my seat after kickoff. If you wish to protest I personally think it's better take your seat after kick off and support the team, after all that is why you go to the game and that should come first.
FREEDOM OF CHOICE.

Erskine Hoop
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Re: Poppy Scotland " Was Freedom of Choice not part of the Fight for Democracy?"

Postby Erskine Hoop » Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:43 pm

For christ sake Joe, show some dignity and respect to the fallen of all wars. It's not coercing Joe, it's called dignity and respect for human suffering. By all means play the democratic card and everyone has a choice, but the remainder of the post is the ranting of a madman.

Erskine Hoop
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Re: Poppy Scotland " Was Freedom of Choice not part of the Fight for Democracy?"

Postby Erskine Hoop » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:15 pm

Joe

As for Mizuno and Hinkel being offended. The Poppy is to remember all fallen soldiers and civillians of all nations, regardless of race, religion or creed. It is not to remember British soldiers only, but anyone who's lost a life in conflict.

Young Celtic fans are being killed in Afghanistan right now, I'm sure fellow Celtic fans can stand silent for one minute of a day, to remember lads from working class Scottish backgrounds. Anyone, and I mean anyone who shouts abuse at the game tommorow will be facing our lads, some of whom fought in the British army and be told to button it.

Joe, can I suggest before you start ranting like above, you concentrate on supporting the Bhoys and leave this nonsense to people who know what they're talking about. When I read the above nonsense, I actually felt ashamed that I probably stand beside people every week who who have no decency to remember the dead.

Dead people of all walks of life, religions, colours and backgrounds. For christ sake, show some respect for the dead and leave the kid on Republican nonsense to others.

Joe O'Rourke
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Re: Poppy Scotland " Was Freedom of Choice not part of the Fight for Democracy?"

Postby Joe O'Rourke » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:27 am

Carlsberg dont do rants but if they did, everyone is entitled to their opinion, your giving one on me and dont even know me, if you dont agre with whats said on the forum you dont have to come on it. Let me make it clear, the decision on having a choice was agreed 100% by the members of the Celtic Supporters Association at the AGM last week.

Erskine Hoop
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Re: Poppy Scotland " Was Freedom of Choice not part of the Fight for Democracy?"

Postby Erskine Hoop » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:22 pm

Look where it got us Joe. Headlines slating our supporters. Headlines which were pointed in the direction of ICF and neds in Bucharest. Now the screw has turned and it's firmly pointing towards the Bhoys.

Think before you release these pathetic statements, Many Celtic fans feel ashamed at this nonsense. As for not coming back.... is democracy in action? If you don't agree with the ranting of the insane and ridiculous, you get told not to come back?

I'm a member of a political organisation which helps Nationalists on a daily basis. But we try to think of the consequences of our actions before release statements.

The CSA knew fine well the actions of yesterday would offend many, many people, yet you still went ahead and sanctioned these bams to sing that crap.

Feck the Queen during a silent tribute to the fallen is the actions of the insane, not the thoughful.


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